I want to talk about two quotes that bring up the idea of isolation and loneliness.
The first is something that Biff comments on in his chapter. "He was thinking that in nearly every person there was some physical part kept always guarded" (29). This brings up the idea of a physical isolation. Mick also comments on emotional and mental isolation when she says, "Some things you naturally want to keep private. Not because they are bad, but because you just want them secret" (40).
How do physical and emotional loneliness or isolation relate in part one? What does McCullers say about loneliness or isolation? This is quite a large topic and there may not even be an answer yet, but I think it is the central idea of the novel (as evident by the title) and I want to have a discussion about it. You may choose to respond in any way you wish. If you interpreted loneliness a differently than me, what is your idea?
Through all of this, keep in mind the idea of John Singer. One of the key lines of the novel was the bible passage that Alice was reciting. "Come ye after me, and I will make you to become fishers of men... All men seek for Thee" (31). I thought that it was pretty clear that this passage was referring to Singer. And if that is true, how does it affect your ideas of loneliness in each of the characters that choose to visit Singer in his apartment?
Have they solved their loneliness by seeking out the deaf ear of John Singer? If Mick, Jake, and Copeland all feel less isolated after talking to Singer, a man who provides no response, is isolation or loneliness even the right word to describe their problem? Are they truly lonely or do they just need to vent? And are Mick, Jake, and Copeland similar in any way? Does Singer fill a gap that is present in each of their lives? What is this gap?
Whatever ideas or thoughts you have about this topic is great.
Isolation and loneliness and the relationship between the two concepts are all ideas that have a large significance to the novel itself and the characters at this point in the novel. Each character shows some type of isolation, whether it be physical or emotional, which parallels to their feeling of loneliness. I think that isolation and loneliness definitely relate in part one of the novel in that the character's loneliness is oftentimes strengthened by isolation. In Mick's case specifically, even in being surrounded by people in the boarding house in which she lives, she still feels isolated from her family and from any emotional relationship. She doesn't seem to be as close to her siblings as they are with one another; she describes her relationships with her sisters Hazel and Etta as just "O.K. as far as sisters went,"(41), and her relationship with her brother Bill seems distant and he as "different entirely from what he used to be"(46). It is evident that Mick feels alone in her home despite the amount of people that live there. She finds solitude in a deserted staircase, in which she chooses to isolate herself. In this isolation Mick asserts, "It was funny, too, how lonesome a person could be in a crowded house"(53). She chooses to isolate herself here, in order to escape from the hustle and bustle of her life, and yet, this isolation only furthers her loneliness. It is interesting however, how Mick is trying to isolate herself, despite the fact that she is already aware of her loneliness in a house full of people. This concept makes me question if isolation, in Mick's case, is the outlet for her to escape the loneliness she feels in her life, or if this isolation only lends itself to more loneliness in the end.
ReplyDeleteThat's a really interesting point that you made at the end. Does Mick isolate herself to escape the loneliness? All though it seems somewhat contradictory, it makes sense. When she enters her room to talk to her sisters they immediately ask her to "leave them alone". And when Mick stays, she is criticized for wearing those "silly boy's clothes" (42). So being around people just reminds Mick how much of an outcast she really is. The same thing happens when she goes to see her brother, who is supposed to be her favorite sibling. He ignores her completely and then mocks her about the violin. If this is supposed to be the person she looks up to, it shows that Mick must not have very many friends.
ReplyDeleteWhile isolation does not solve her problem of not having anyone to talk to, it doesn't expose it. When Mick is alone, the fact that she doesn't really have any friends isn't as apparent. I would have never thought to think of this.
Exactly! I'm curious to figure out if in her literal physical isolation she feels the least isolated. Perhaps she feels this way because when she is immersed in her family and her house, she is always turned away from her siblings, her parents. It would make sense that she would feel more alone in a crowded house where it is more apparent that others choose not to include her or to mock her, as you were discussing. I would question if this purposeful isolation helps Mick in defeating the feeling of loneliness, or if it numbs her loneliness, or if in isolating herself, she is making it worse.
ReplyDeleteCeli, I find what you say about whether lonliness is solved by isolation or if isolation leads to lonliness to be very interesting. In the context of Mick, I think that she wants to satisfy her lonliness with isolation, but that she knows that it is impossible-which brings in the quote that Mike addressed, "But though she thought about this a long time she knew in the beginning that there was no good place" (53). Since Mick has come to the realization that "there is no good place" where she can satisfy her lonliness, there is a feeling of hopelessness that arises. However, when Mick comes to this realization, she is alone. So, there is a cycle of constant dissatisfaction and failure to compensate for her lonliness. The isolation makes Mick feel that the lonliness she feels when she is not isolated, like "how lonesome a person could be in a crowded house" is neverending nor reparable (53). So, in the case of your question, Celi, I think that it is actually both. The desire to relieve lonliness drives a person to seek isolation, which only leads to hopelessness when he/she discovers that isolation is not the answer. Therefore, isolation lends itself to more lonliness in the end, continuing the dangerous cycle.
ReplyDeleteI think we will definitely find more out about this issue. Especially if Mick is supposed to be McCullers.
ReplyDeleteI think it numbs the loneliness. It can't make it better because you can't make new friends by yourself.
For example those dreams she has where she is swimming through a crowd of people might be able to lend some insight. She says they are more like nightmares than dreams. I interpret this to mean that being with people is terrifying for her.
But how is Singer different? Is it just because he can't respond when she unloads all of her feelings? I am hesitant to say that this is the case because Singer could still be as mean as Mick's siblings without talking. I think she talks to him because of his calm, observent personality. The fact that he can't respond is just a bonus.
I really enjoyed reading the comments between Celi and Mike...going off the idea of lonliness in such a crowded household, it seems as though Mick has grown up in an environment of loneliness and the people that surround her seem to just accept her loneliness as a part of her character. Right in the beginning of the novel, Mrs. Kelly tells Mick, "Mr. Jackson has brought his two sisters to dinner and there won't be but just enough chairs, so today you're to eat in the kitchen with Bubber" her younger brother. And what amazed me the most is she responds "That's hunky-dory with me" (46). This idea connects very closely to what Celi was saying above, that Mick uses isolation as a means to escape her terrible loneliness. She questions at this instance why her brother had let her down and not helped her make the violin..."maybe he hadn't meant to let her down like this. but anyway they could never be good buddies again" (47). The person she built up to be "the grandest person in the world" let her down, and contribute to how she often feels lonely (48). This connects to what Celi left off on her last comment, Mick is bringing isolation onto herself and contributing to her own loneliness. I feel Mick's expectations are so high, she believes people to be so good, but with one little mistake these expectations are squandered. She is an incredibly perceptive being, she notices that "her Dad could never get off his mind-ways he could have made money and didn't" or that her sister would "hold her face with her hands and cry in the night" as to why she wasn't as pretty as Hazel (41). It is great that Mick is so perceptive, but it is almost as if she is too perceptive, that she soaks in the sadness of her family like a sponge. She tries to distance herself from the sadness and unhappiness of her siblings and it is only in Singer that she feels comfortable enough to express herself-but he cannot respond. He cannot fill the gap, as Mike put it, that is present in her life. Although it is lucky that she found a person to confide in in her own household, the relationship between Singer and Mick does in no way compensate for the broken relationships in her family.
ReplyDeleteFor future posters, I just noticed that both Blount and Dr. C have the same problem: they both have these unique ideas to tell people, but no one will listen. Blount talks and talks at the bar about a wide variety of topics and never attracts a true conversation. Dr. C spent his entire fatherhood trying to change the behaviors of his children, but they never listened.
ReplyDeleteI just thought that this was interesting. And if anyone wants to comment, feel free to go ahead and make the connection to how Singer fills this need for someone to talk to.
I think that Claire brings up an interesting point in her last sentence about how each of these characters are using Singer as a way to compensate for the broken relationships in their lives. I can definitely see this in Mick (obviously) and her relationship with her family. Broken relationships are also apparent in the lives of Biff and his wife, who he "watches with detachment" (14), Jake who is literally a stranger to this town, and Doctor Copeland who "would talk and talk, but none of [his family] wanted to understand"(81).
ReplyDeleteTo each of these characters, I think that Singer represents the "perfect relationship", by which I mean one that they desire to have with the people in their lives that they no longer have.
But can Singer compensate for these broken relationships? Can he be a replacement for Biff's wife, Mick's family, Jake's friend, Copeland's children?
I think we will find out as we continue reading, but I think that Singer's role as a "replacement" is an interesting comment, because in a way, Singer is very much like a blank page, where each of these characters can recreate an image to their liking as they speak to him. Thus, they can make him out to be exactly what they had wanted in their "broken" relationships. This would also remind me of Amanda's suggestion on the other post about relating this story to "The Mortgaged Heart" and the idea of copies and originals.
I think Singer can only be a temporary "replacement" for these "broken relationships" (Chelsea). Again with doubles or two parts, I think the only way these charcters can heal is if they can reconcile the relationships and reconcile the two conflicting parts of themselves. Singer may be the gateway, some resting point for the transitory,but he cannot be the final destination because in real, judgemental relationships, a person is not "a blank page" (Chelsea).
ReplyDeleteSinger is a good example of this himself he and Antanpuplous are "two friends", "two mutes",they share "two rooms", and met at age "twenty-two"(7,3,5,9).Two parts of a whole until Antanouplous is moved "two-hundred miles away"(9). Now this could all be coincidence, but I'd like to think that "The Heart is a Lonely Hunter" because its looking for its pair, which is brought up in "The Morgatged Heart". Like Singer isn't happy until he finds Antonouplous, the lost people won't be happy until their relationships are no longer broken.
I agree with the discussion of Singer being a "'temporary replacement' for these 'broken relationships'" (Amanda). This reminds me of the notion of Singer's inexpressibility of his emotions. This however causes me to question who Singer is to these people? Does he "help" to repair these peoples relationships and then disappear from their lives. Is Singer only needed to fill the void of detachment and single loneliness until their relationships are patched and he is no longer needed? I am curious to see what happens as we read further.
ReplyDeleteWe talked about this today in class, and it is slightly off topic, but I want to bring up the idea of Mick's femininity and the struggle she has with her gender. Mick is alone in that her sisters cannot relate to her and her brother has changed since their childhood, and she does not have any friends to fill this gap. However, she is also lonely in that no one understands her struggles of accepting her femininity. She tells her sisters, "I wear shorts because I don't want to wear your old hand-me-downs. I don't want to be like either of you and I don't want to look like either of you ... I'd rather be a boy any day" (42). She writes her initials on "each corner" (37) of the wall on which she writes the names of influential societal figures. She then writes "pussy" on the opposing wall, which as Chelsea said in class, represents her conflicting feelings with her sexuality. She writes her initials in each corner in an attempt to have her name mean something, to have her name be regarded on the same plane as the other men. However, her physical uncomfort with her sexuality, which Biff notices as she "picked at the front of her blouse" (29), is what keeps her isolated. No one understands her feelings, which results in increased lonelieness. Just as discussed previously, Mick isolates herself to cope with loneliness, both physical and emotional. However, in this case, though she has Singer to talk to, I think her isolation causes her to be more lonely than before; she has Singer to talk to, but she still struggles to accept herself and her sexuality.
ReplyDelete