As an outsider, Nick has an almost unbiased view of the wealthy New York society. How do you think Nick views the Mckees, Tom and Myrtle specifically? Do you believe his opinion changes from the night of the party to the day after? What do you think will be the consequences of the events that occurred that night?
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I think it's interesting to go back to the very beginning of the book where Nick discusses his background when thinking about htis question. He mentions how prominent his family has been on page 7, but after his experiences in the war, he's looking for more culture than his home town can provide. I think his observations of Myrtle, Tom, and the Mckees reflects that curiosity and longing. He notes peculiarities, but he is not so biased as to extensively criticize them. He is, "within and without, simultaneously enchanted and repelled by the inexhaustible variety of life," (40). Meeting all of these people (apart from Tom) under the influence of alcohol could affect their relationship throughout the book. With such an open, unabashed first impression, I hope we find out exactly how Nick feels about these characters. Which of the occurances within the evening "enchanted" him, and which ones "repelled" him? In a small group of people, the consequences, at least in society, may be minimal. It will be interesting to see how that party affects Nick emotionally and psychologically.
ReplyDeleteMaggie pointed out an interesting quote about how Nick is simultaneously "enchanted and repelled" by the scene surrounding him in the apartment. I believe this is perhaps the most important phrase that Nick has said so far because it reveals his view on the elitist upper class. It reveals a moment's clear glimpse at the inner workings of Nick's mind. From the very beginning of the book, Nick has said that he had "unaffected scorn" for people like Tom and Myrtle. He goes through his life perplexed and even disgusted at the faults of the elitist upper class. During the party at the apartment, he silently makes fun of Myrtle's ridiculously arrogant attitude, describing her as "[She] raised her eyebrows in despair at the shiftlessness of the lower orders" and saying “'These people! You have to keep after them all the time'”. Yet, once loosened up with alcohol, Fitzgerald lets us glimpse the fact that he envies these people just as much as he despises them. Yet this fact is interesting. If alcohol was needed in order to show the true inner feelings of Nick, what does that say about when he is sober? I feel that this throws Nick's reliability into doubt. In fact, I would disagree with the claim that Nick is truly unbiased. His views of the McKee's, Myrtle, and Tom are proof that he cannot be totally trusted. He obviously views Tom as a slightly ridiculous cousin, introducing him "... in riding clothes was standing with his legs apart on the front porch". Any "unbiased" narrator would simply have remarked that Tom stood to welcome Nick into his home. Instead, Nick paints a faintly embarrassing portrait of a bulky middle-aged man standing in an awkward position in tights. The McKee's are painted in an even worse light. Mr. McKee is labeled as a hazy bumbler with a soul the color of overdone oatmeal. He is then paired in comic relief with Mrs. McKee who was "...shrill, languid, handsome, and horrible". Nick seems to almost enjoy playing Shakespeare with the people around him. By making the two McKee's so dynamically repugnant, he seems to reduce the couple to a slapstick duet. The only remittance of this invisible cynicism is when he for some inexplicable reason is bidding goodnight to Mr. McKee in his bedroom. All of a sudden, Nick portrays Mr. McKee as vulnerable, and even innocent, describing only that he was "clad in underwear". Instead of blearily focusing on some moral flaw visible in Mr. McKee's, Nick simply writes of Mr. McKee in one of his most vulnerable moments, suggesting a previously dormant sense of empathy, and even compassion.
ReplyDeleteMaggie brought up an important point in that Nick seems to be "enchanted" and "repelled" by certain events at the party. We already know that Gatsby enchants Nick because he can't believe he is neighbors with someone so successful and at such a high social class. At the party, we then see that Catherine's reference to Gatsby intrigues Nick, and this "absorbing information about his neighbor" (37) exemplifies his newfound curiosity toward the town. We can only assume that Nick will strive in later chapters to learn more and more about this mysterious figure.
ReplyDeleteThrough the successive events in chapters 1 and 2, Nick additionally shows his anxiety to be a part of others' lives. Nick was outgoing in visiting Tom in the first place because the two weren't necessarily good friends and their desire to see each other wouldn't normally constitute a visit, let alone a party. Secondly, in the midst of all the conflicting ideas harboring in his mind, Nick still paid close attention (to the best of his ability) to what each individual had to contribute. Also, Nick portrays the group's attitude at the party in a way that reflects its personality as a whole. The fact that the group seemed to include Nick more than reject him at the party shows the low value the characters put on making close and lasting friends.
The two ideas that Nick was either unbiased at the party or that the "alcohol was needed in order to show the true inner feelings of Nick" (Alex) have been introduced in our discussion so far. I agree with Alex that Nick was rather biased at the party. And because of that we are able to answer the initial question posted by Gianna, "How do you think Nick views the Mckees, Tom and Myrtle specifically?" (Gianna). In my opinion it would be almost impossible for Nick to have no natural judgement as a lower-class outsider, looking in at his wealthy "friends" at the party. I think that he feels sorry for Myrtle because Myrtle believes, "It's really his wife that's keeping them apart. She's a catholic and they don't believe in divorce"(38) and Nick knows "Daisy was not a catholic" and he "was a little shocked at the elaborateness of the lie"(38). I think Nick sides with his sister, Daisy, and the relationship between Myrtle and Nick might not work out in the future.
ReplyDeleteMaggie brought up an interesting point before that Nick "meeting all of these people (apart from Tom) under the influence of alcohol could affect their relationship throughout the book"(Maggie). It will be interesting to see the development of the relationships as we move forward in the book.
I also disagree with the claim that Nick is unbiased (like Alex and Emily). It is human tendency to judge others, intentionally or unintentionally. As Maggie mentions, Nick comes from a "prominent, well-to-do people" (7) but moves due to his restlessness and interest in exploring other cultures. The inclusion of his ancestry indicates a sense of unbiased views to the reader. However, Nick's observations still have an undertone of opinions, whether they are obvious or not. For instance, the readers get a sense of the upper class's ignorance especially when Myrtle complains about the ice. In addition to Myrtle's comment, "'These people! You have to keep after them all the time'" (36), Nick also seems repelled (in response to Maggie's question) by Mrs. McKee and Myrtle's conversation about her dress. Myrtle seems to downplay Mrs. McKee's compliment while Myrtle "removed a strand of hair from over her eyes and looked back at us with a brilliant smile" (35).
ReplyDeleteI'm curious as to whether Nick is more repulsed or fascinated by the New York society. Does one outweigh the other? I also detected a sense of parallelism in the line, "the little dog was sitting on the table looking with blind eyes through the smoke and from time to time groaning faintly" (41). The senses evoked from the words, blind and smoke, are similar to Nick's distortion of reality due to the alcohol. The groaning faintly also connects to Nick's toleration of the party despite his desire to leave.
I would also have to disagree that Nick's view is unbiased. It is interesting because the book begins with the idea of not judging others. Nick's father gives him advice that he should never judge another person, hence Nick is "inclined to reserve all judgments" (1) of people. I agree that "Nick’s observations still have an undertone of opinions" (Kate) despite his inclination to reserve these specific judgments.
ReplyDeleteIn response to Kate's curiosity of Nick's repulsion or fascination of the New York society, I feel that it is a mix of both. He says that he "wanted to get out and walk eastward toward the Park through the soft twilight, but each time I [he] tried to go I [he] became entangled in some wild, strident argument which pulled him back" (35). He is conflicted as to whether or not he should leave or stay at the party. Yet if Nick was truly repulsed by the New York society, it would prove that his opinions are biased by judgments. This brings me to the question that, as an outsider looking into a new society, is it truly possible to withhold all judgments?
To comment on the question of weather or not Nick is unbiased during chapter two, can we reflect on how Fitzgerald chose to introduce the narrator? He started the book with a description of Nick's thoughts about his father saying, "Whenever you feel like criticizing anyone," he told me, "just remember that all the people in this world haven't had the advantages that you've had" (Fitzgerald 5). Nick goes on to say, "In consequence I'm inclined to reserve all judgments" (Fitzgerald 5). Does this this tolerance of judgment reach its limit at the party, the way Katie or Alex are arguing? If it does what does Nicks giving into judgment so early in the book say about not only his character, but how different the environment in the East must be compared to where Nick is from?
ReplyDeleteI do not think that Nick is unbiased. Agreeing with Kate, I also believe that it is human tendency to judge others, and although Nick may attempt to refrain from judging, he expresses his negative views on the upper class beginning even in chapter one. For example, when he arrived at the Buchanans' house, Nick describes Tom as having "arrogant eyes" and "a cruel body" (Fitzgerald 5). At the McKees' party, Nick is repulsed by the "shrill, languid, handsome and horrible" Mrs. McKee (34). At the party, Nick implies his disapproval of Myrtle after she illustrates her disgust for the lower class. "'These people! You have to keep after [the lower class] all the time'" (36). Thus, Nick does express biased views of others before and during the party.
ReplyDeleteIn response to Katie's question, I do not deem it possible for an outsider to withhold all judgements of a new society. It is human nature to form opinions on individuals and their societies. For an opinion to form, the outsider must compare his lifestyle to the lifestyles of those he observes; hence, to form an opinion, one must make biased judgements. I believe that it is Nick's perspective and bias that completely informs the reader of the setting of The Great Gatsby.
It is made clear, as has been pointed out, that Nick is susceptible to bias in his narration, but understandably so. His bias shows more through enhanced description, rather than omission, although his inebriation certainly in capitates his ability to narrate effectively for a time. As Alex pointed out, Nick describes Tom’s welcome in a mocking manner, which “… paints a faintly embarrassing portrait of a bulky middle-aged man standing in awkward position in tights.” (Alex) Although, it seems that Nick has ambivalent feelings toward the lavish attitude of the wealthy, as he admires Gatsby and loathes Tom, he does make clear the distinction, in his mind, between East Egg and West Egg.
ReplyDeleteIt must also be noted that repulsion and intrigue are two emotions that can coexist and not conflict. Intrigue does not lead to admiration but as, what he believes to be, a reliable narrator it is essential to stay and report all the events. As has been quoted by Katie, he is “…inclined to reserve all judgments…” (1) Nick’s bias does not, in fact, impair his ability to narrate, his inebriation does. As Katie pointed out, “I wanted to get out and walk southward toward the park through the soft twilight, but each time I tried to go I became entangled in some wild, strident argument which pulled me back, as if with ropes, into my chair.” (40). His blatant fascination with the group at the party enhances his ability to narrate as he is able to give a true outsider perspective, in that his emotions are authentic and likely to be felt by anyone coming from his situation during the time period. It also forces him to stick around and report more of what happens. His curiosity allows him to find something interesting about everything; however, insignificant it may be to the people at the party, as true outsider would. His conflict of emotions adds a new depth to narration, as he can present both sides, superficially a sanctimonious group of people with ridiculous social customs, but past the surface a group of people that many envy during the time period. He shows both of these for each group of characters during the party.
By succumbing to his desire and getting drunk for only the second time in his life, he reveals his own secret interest for these people. But above that he shows his repugnance and pity for the characters. As Emily quoted earlier, “It’s really his wife that’s keeping them apart. She’s a catholic and they don’t believe in divorce” (38). As Alex already explained, he describes the McKees and Tom unfavorably as well.
To attest to Sara’s follow up, Nick does show a sense of judgment, contradicting his initial statements; however, it does not reach its limit as he still has the curiosity as Dan pointed out to keep going and act as a good, and mostly reliable narrator. In Nick’s defense he comes from a much more conservative and traditional society out west. The eastern United States is completely different than he is used, and while he is able to swallow most of his judgment in Chapter 1, despite seeing his cousin act so ridiculously and seeing someone he knew from New Haven is something he scorns so deeply, the alcohol is enough to show what he truly feels. This is caused by the distinction between East and West. West Egg symbolizes the newly rich, while East Egg represents the old money. Nick, part of West Egg and originally from the Midwest, cannot fathom the increasingly destructive social customs of the East and the lack of values. He holds extremely high values as shown by the opening advice from his father, so while he would like to “reserve judgment” what is being done completely opposes his inherent ethics. Although his introduction of Gatsby is yet to come, one can infer that he must, in accordance with the idea of the West, hold some values as opposed to the little to none of the East.
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ReplyDeleteI agree that Nick is a biased narrator, even though he says he will reserve all judgments. However, I don't believe that this bias inhibits his ability to be a reliable narrator. The natural bias that shows up in his narrating shows both sides of the life style of the elite society, like Arjun said, that people lived and others envied. Nick's narration shows how the people who have it all really don't. This makes Nick pity them, like Arjun said.
ReplyDeleteThe bias in Nick's narrating makes it more reliable because, like Lexi said, it " completely informs the reader of the setting of the Great Gatsby". Nick's ability to detach himself from the events of the society and criticize them for what is actually going on, just like he did to Myrtle and Tom. His initial reaction of Tom was, indeed, biased but it gave an accurate picture of Tom, arrogant, etc... At the beginning of the novel Nick says, " Reserving judgement is a matter of infinite hope" (1). If Nick didn't tell the story with a biased, yet clearer view of the events and attitudes of the people around him, then the book would just be about how great it was to be a rich person in the 1920's. But because he tells the story the way he does, the story becomes, most likely, closer to the truth and it also breaks down the preconceived nostalgia that we have as American's looking back at the "golden" Jazz age.
I also agree that the only thing that makes his narration unreliable is that fact that hes drunk.